tv NOW With Alex Wagner MSNBC March 13, 2013 9:00am-10:00am PDT
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this is "now." joininging mess today, bureau chief ryan grimm, senior fellow at the center on budget and policy priorities and msnbc contributor jared bernstein. bob herbert is a distinguished senior fellow at deem owes. and "time" magazine assistant manager editor rhonda fewer er. >> there you go. moving on the rest of the script. i apologize. this afternoon president obama will sit down with the raucous caucus of house republicans. it's part of the president's multiweek charm offensive that continues tomorrow when he'll eat lunch with senate republicans. it comes smack in the middle of budget season. what the white house revealed yesterday, the president will release his budget proposal on
april 8th. today patty murray will unveil the democratic proposal. the budget would save nearly $2 trillion over ten years, derived equalitily from spending cuts and revenue from tax reform. it also sets aside $100 billion in stimulus spending on infrastructu infrastructure. how does it tack up to the budget proposed yet by paul ryan? here is a side-by-side comparison. the savings are more than double those in murray's plan. how has the numbers wizard able to find so much more extra fat to trim from the federal budget? he is cutting to the bone. more than $700 billion would be caved out of medicaid and nearly a try won would be chopped from programs including food stamps and pell grants. the defense would see zero in cuts in an enter view that aired this morning -- >> we're not going to balance the budget in ten years, because if you look at what paul ryan
does to balance the budget, it means that you have to voucherize medicare, you have to slash deeply into programs like medicaid. >> but even those cuts alone don't make paul ryan's numbers add up. it only achieves balance through a full repeat of obama care, which it's worth noting is already law of the land upheld by supreme court and being enacted in 27 states. this gimmickry represents a stunning the extra $700 billion in savings from repealing a law. the editorial board of "the washington post" assessed mr. ry ryan's plans this morning and came to this conclusion. >> the obama care repeal accounts for more than half of the deficit reduction in mr. ryan's bucket, which pretty much closes the book on it as a serious guide to future policy. joining us again from washington is msnbc policy analyst "the
washington post" columnist, the ultracelebrator of budget season, ezra klein. i don't even know in ultra--celebrator is a term or correct english, but so happy to have you here. >> happy to be here. >> we may have to interrupt this any moment, as you know we are on smoke watch here. that's a live shot of the chimney. we'll bring you the latest there. that's one caveat as we go forward. ezra, yesterday we had a long discussion about whether or not paul ryan's budget was a serious budget. i want to go off the editorial board noting "the washington post," what do you make of that contention, that so much is base odd gimmickry and it can't be considered serious? >> i don't know that i would call it gimmickry, right? first, he doesn't repeal all of it. he keeps all the taxes, all the medicare cuts, he just repeals a part that gives people health care insurance. >> that would seem to be a significant part, my friend.
>> it's a big part, the core part, but not the whole part. a lot of paul ryan's balancing of the budget is based on tax increases, and he's not repealing. it turns out it's really hard to balance a budget if you're not going to increase taxes, but one broader point here, we get into a trap in budget season, which as you know, i love, which we just sort of rate everything but how much debt reduction it achieves. you see these graphs, murray's budget has half as much deficit reduction, and i think someone looking at the graph says ryan's budget is better, but there's not some sort of abstract reason we just want more and more and more deficit reduction. these are all programs and policies helping people or hurting people. you know, there's another graph you could put up that ryan's budget leaves 35 more million people to be uninsured. i think one thing we get trapped in is the whole idea of a budget is reducing a deficit. no, it's showing what our priorities are and how we will
spend money and what is worth it and what isn't. >> we have here jared bernstein, budget celebrant emeritus. jared, let's talk about this. before this show started, we started a discussion about it's actually good i think for the country to get involved in a discussion about budget, not just because you have an affinity for numb bersz, but as ezra says, budgets are moral documents in a way. they show or priorities as a country. what have you gleaned? >> well, paul ryan's budget has described as robin hood in reverse. i think that is accurate. the savings that he generates largely come from cutting programs who very much need the help right now, and he takes some of those savings and gives them back to upper income people in corporations in huge tax cuts. by the way, there's another deficit problem if the ryan budget. i think he's gotten a bit of a
free ride. theres no way mathematically and i can take you through the numbers that paul ryan request offset the trillions of. >> not -- >> there are no free rides -- that is an important part. he wants to lower the top marginal tax rates to a number that is lower than even mitt romney. >> mitt romney took seven points off the top tax rate. paul ryans takes about 15 points, so twice as heavy a lift. can i make one point? >> begin the colloquy. >> i'm a little surprised to see you without a body guard today, because ezra wrote in his piece this morning that our deficits right now are too small. now, i happen to agree with that, but that's heresy in d.c. where you are right now. i'd love to hear you say a few words about why the deficits are too small right now. >> yeah, look action this goes through this idea that deficits are moral. no they're a tool. businesses often go into debt to
make -- and this is the opportunity the world gives us. we worry pretty much about one thing with the deficit. if they're too high, interest rates will go up. definite constituents are bad because of what they primarily do to interest rates. right now interest rates on government debt, completely completely historical fashion are negative after the count for inflation. the world is so desperate to put their money somewhere. that is an amazing opportunity for us to do whatever you want to do to create jobs. you can cut taxes, as the republicans should want to do, invest in infrastructure, give state and local governments money to rehire the people they laid off, but you should take advantage of this opportunity, and we should put in place a deficit reduction plan over the longer term, starting as the economy begins to recover more that will give more credibility to the market, such that interest rates don't go up if
they get scared, we'll never do anything about deficits. but it's a matter of timing, not a matter of morality. ivities bob, giving all great work that demoss is doing, the republicans have been masterful insofar as is the national debate has centered on deficits. a lot of the economists would say, look, as ezra points out, a long-term plan is necessary, but in the short term stimulus spending is what we need. >> exactly what we need. >> the elephant in the living room is still unemployment. we have too many people who are jobless or underemployed, and budgets in any kind of reasonable state of balance without putting these people back to work in good jobs so that they're paying taxes. the question becomes, when we have they budget debates in washington and the question that's not being answered is, what is the goal? the goal is not simply to get a balanced budget or get closer.
it's to have some kind of economic outcome from your budget policies, and they have not made that clear to the american people what they really want to achieve. i don't think either party has done that. >> i would say i totally agree, but two things that don't get discussed enough are inequality and growth. so to take the first one, if you think about some of the policies discussed, cutting conserves tiffs are always complaining, and you have to do the steps that there's not a logic there. it's also not just about increasing taxes or making cuts, but how to grow the economy. during the clinton administration, we grew out of it for a variety of reasons. we need to think about policies that are going to get the economy growing out of 2%, and i agree, austerity is not the way
to do it. all you have to do is look at europe and see that they're in recession because of all of this. >> i guess the question is austerity is something that was sort of debated and litigated in the campaign season. my colleague and rachel maddow said we have seen the end of this movie. how is it that paul ryan is still proposing things that lost him -- that lost republicans in the white house a couple months ago. >> you're right. we had the debate politically, and it came out on the side opposed to austerity. we had the debate economically in europe, and everyone over there has agreed that austerity was a mistake. the imf has come out and more or less policy jesused for its recommendation of austerity, which sank it deeper into crisis over there. and the point here is that, you know, ryan has a more central
problem, because hits numbers don't add up nels he gets the growth that he's assuming, and the cuts he's calling for undermine the numbers. so the numbers just don't work, because they're attacking each other. >> i think the conversation is too rational in the following sense. the republicans and ryan are not just calling for the policies they're calling for because of some economic theory. if everybody's hair is on fire about deficits and debt, they can slash away government, and slashable social insurance, medicare and so on, and very much shrink the size of government, which is their ultimate goal. so if your hair is not on fire, then you can think about growth, insuring people and jobs. >> ezra, as you point out, on one of the programs that's constantly a boogeyman, nobody is touching that.
and certainly paul rye cran's plan is incredibly vague in its language. about what is still the third rail in american politics. >> i think you have to go back to recent history. one of paul ryans's big defeats was in '05. he was a key member pushing social security privatization. he had a plan so far out there that the bush administration said it would be irresponsible to embrace it, and then of course the bush administration came out with something more modest, arguing -- but they got hugely, hugely rejetted over that. so i think republicans have been quite afraid of social security since then. one more point on this one. when the economy is recovering, there are a lot of cuts you can make that make sense at that point. there are jobs in the economy for people to see. if state and local governments cut back, when you do it in a period of time when many unemployed people for a -- you
make the unemployment problem worse, and that is where you get into ryan's point. >> ezra action thank you as always. coming on with a doubleheader of smoke watch and budget season -- >> you haven't even heard my opinions on the smoke. >> and sorry that it didn't happen in this segment. we invite you back. until we get the smoke and a grand bargain. thank you, my friend, for your time and opinion. after the break, brooklyn is probably not the first place that comes to minute, and that's probably why reince priebus found himself in kings county. we'll have that next on "now." mom always got good nutrition to taste great. she was a picky eater. well now i'm her dietitian and last year, she wasn't eating so well. so i recommended boost complete nutritional drink
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speaking about immigration reform yesterday, senator john mccain made an impassioned argument about our shared humanity. >> help us carry the message. the message is that we are a judeo christian based nation, and we love all of our fellow human beings. for people to be kept in drop houses, in these terrible conditions, for people to be terribly abused as they're brought across the border by coyotes is not acceptable in a country like ours. mccain's messaging marks a renewal of compassionate conservatism. after president obama won 93% of african-american votes, 73% of asian-americans and 71% of latinos in 2012, republicans are trying to present a grand old
party that's not exclusively the purview of old white 53%ers. the growth and opportunity project, on monday rnc chair reince priebus brought his listens tour to a church in brooklyn. prescribe us told reporters outside the said, quote -- we can't just be a party of purity. we have to be a well coming party. we can't go from one mad interview to the next about the national debt and deficit. just hours later, he went to the next mad interview to disparage the president and talk about the national debt and deficit. >> we hold used car salesmen to higher standards. this is our moment to lay out our vision for america in a budget that balances in ten years, that doesn't raise taxes, that include comprehensive tax reform, that inclusion a spending freeze in washington. these are the things that people want. >> it's a tricky proposition for
trying to put a new face forward, while still reassures that nothing has changed. yesterday chris christie was in parter son, new jersey where he just won 11% of the vote. >> when people have said that, governor, why don't you bring people together? i say, hell, i did bring people together. go to patterson. 89% of the people said, we don't want you. i thought, of course i'm not going to win there, but when i do win, i'm going to all those folks to know that i'm their governor, too. that's what you have to do if you want to lead. but no good deed gotten unpunished. christie's outreach and decision to expand medication, which will provide health care for 300,000 poor people in his state did not go unnoticed. >> they pull off the effects of the massively expanded medicaid
program where they also expand the definition of poor so more and more people are on the government dole. and this is why when you have republican governor like krispy kreme signing on to this, it's going to be financially ruinous. i'm a conservative, why don't i get to speak at cpac? have a doughnut and shut up, will you? >> ouch. ryan, do something that benefits your state, you have very good approval ratings, what does it get you? the nickname krispy kreme and nasty jokes about your eating habits. it's a problem for the government that they can't seem to reconcile. >> christie has clearly decided that even if he could win the presidentacy primary going to the right, he would lose the general election, so what's the point? so he's going to try to get the electable candidate, the one who can bring people together, but still attract the tea party
people because he's so obviously angry. man, i might have a different approach -- >> we're pro-angry. we're mad as hell. >> he sees that as his only road to the white house. i think that's a reasonable assessment. you know, i think priebus show the his cards. you can simply not be for growth and opportunity on the one hand and then step to the other studio and say i support the paul ryan budget, which cuts pell, food stamps, medicaid, universal, pre-k, all the things that mean growth and opportunity. >> bob, i love the part of the annex dote where he's like meeting with 20 black republicans. and peter bien art in "the daily beast" i think has a fair assessment -- republicans probably overestimate the traction they'll get from changing the color and accents of their pitchmen. there's something deeply
patronizing about their assumption, latino and black democrats act merely on ethnic or racial affinity. >> how does priebus find 20 black republicans in brooklyn. give me a break. what i think is important to understand, is this is a party that's been relentlessly hostile in its policies to the interests of black americans and other ethnic minority at least since the era of richard nixon. i mean relentless, and nothing has changed. all you have to do is look at the ryan budget proposal, and you will see this is a party that wants to do harm to the interests of african-americans. there is a reason why blacks vote almost 100% against the republican party year after year. after the election about the demographic issue, and how republicans weren't keeping abreast of the changes, but i
think that the core problem is that there is no economic ideology beyond trickle down, which has clearly failed. that is a really, really core problem. it hasn't been addressed. i live in brooklyn, actually. >> as do i. >> there was one romney/ryan sign in the window on my block, and that house got egged at halloween. >> wow. wow. >> i'm not kid lin ldingkidding. of the folks on the side of draco, the most draconian folks in the raucous caucus, ryan is the one who scuttled the -- if we're to believe the reporting. he's most trying to pivot and have it both ways, in his support for education, his talk about making is the party more inclusive, his behind the scenes work which did not go uncelebrated. i'm glad they passed it, but at
the end of the day, can he be the standardbearer for the tea party and also usher in a new eray based largely on nothing? he engaged thoughtfully and seriously. and it took month and it was an embarrassment with him, but they eventually passed it. then sent out press releases. so they saw the political benefit form then they were embarrassed because we have google. maybe they learned the lesson.
that maybe they'll go along. >> violence against women shouldn't be that heavy of a lift. there's just not been enough thought to actual policies that actually help people, and where the base is seems to be very different from where the leadership is. so if the base is very much antiimmigrant, that's a heavier lift. so that's what i'm looking for. to see where there's progress, but we'll see. >> bob, we had my wonderful friend chris -- i've been saying that name-dropping, so egregi s egregious, but he was talking about a new study that showed that we elected officials on the state level overestimate how conserve thif their constituents are.
there's this myth-making just how violently conservative the base is, but that doesn't trickle up into actual legislation. there's no course correction. >> i think policymakers lift in an alternate university, the people they're supposed to represent. i go back and forth on whether this is because they're out of touch or if this is because this is what they actually mean to do. both parties are awash in a sea of corporate money, for example, and the people who give the money are the people who get hurt, but if you look at the republicans, for example, all of to do is look at history. what the republicans have wanted to do all along, and this goes to darrell's point earlier, shrink government you so you do have to pay the benefits, and what they want to do is they want to take that money and give it back to the wealthy in the form of tax cuts. that is their fundamental belief all along, and it has not changed.
>> oh, bob herbert, i was looking for some sort of sunshiny assessment about the shifting demographics, but it inevitably would change the republicans, but we remain pessimistic. we also remain on smoke watch. coming up the papal conclave is in a second day of deliberation. we are monitoring the chimney for smoke. might we see a new pope today? might we see a new pope in this hour? we'll get a live report next. [ male announcer ] what?! investors could lose tens of thousands of dollars in hidden fees on their 401(k)s?! go to e-trade and roll over your old 401(k)s to a new e-trade retirement account. none of them charge annual fees and all of them offer low cost investments. e-trade. less for us. more for you.
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this morning crowds watch black smoke waft from the sistine chapel, signaling no cant had received more than two thirds support. joining us is msnbc's chris jansi jansing. great to see you, i defer to you on this, i hear that the longer this process goes on the higher the likelihood is that we get an unconventional candidate or unconventional front-runner, how accurate is that, do you think? >> well, history tells us there is some indication of that, and if history is a guide, if we get smoke in the next 20 minutes, we would be on par with the last conclave. pope benedict went in, though, as a fave. i think it's generally felt here there isn't a strong favorite. so the longer this goes on, the
less likely to be him, but less likely to be one of the two americans, cardinal dolan and cardinal o'malley, in addition to ouellet of canada. i was speaking about that possibility, are we moving into the territory where they might be moving a earp from a more expected candidate. he didn't try to disabuse me of the notion. in the meantime dennis rodman came and went, but it looked to me to be thousands of people. one person we have seen with a flag that we think is from chad, there is no cardinal from chad, who's been out there in the cold and rain all day long. literally thousands of people staring as a smokestack waiting to see whether it will be plaque or white. i think they're probably in the process of the first afternoon vote. if we don't see anything soon, they may be moving interest the second vote.
if it's inconclusive the first time, we won't see smoke until after two votes, and then they will burn the ballots. nbc's chris jansing, who has her eyes trained on black smoke, white smoke, and apparently for some part of this morning dennis rodman. i never thought i would add that to the list of things you're doing over there. we may come back to you. thank you for the update, as always. >> thank you. what does it mean for a country when the middle class becomes an endangered species? we'll talk with joe and harry gan about their new documentary on poverty and the vanishing american dream. that's next on "now." [ jackie ] it's just so frustrating... ♪ the middle of this special moment and i need to run off to the bathroom. ♪ i'm fed up with always having to put my bladder's needs ahead of my daughter. ♪
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profits, it maybe look like a nation on the up and up. but we are still reeling from a national economic crisis. today 48.5 million americans, 16% of the population live in poverty. this includes 16 million children from 2007 to 2010 the median net worth fell by 40%, wiping out 18 years of accumulated wealth. median family income continuing to fall every year. half of the jobs in the united states of america now pay less than $33,000 a year, and a quarter of those jobs pay less than the poverty line of $22,000 for a family of four. over half of american adults believe their children will be worse off than they are, but beneath these statistics there are real people struggling to survive. a new hbo documentary "american winter" can turs what's happening to families on the other side of the roaring stock market. men and women losing heat and electricity in the dead of winter, sleeping in their cars,
and struggling to feed their children. the documentary shows us the human consequences of budget cuts, the subprime mortgage crisis and hollowing out of of the american middle class. >> we need help. >> we just got an eviction notice. >> are you sleeping in your car? >> under a bridge, actually. >> i hear them sometimes saying we skipped dinner because we need to feed or kids. sometimes when i hear that, i cry. sometimes. >> for the middle class in this country, we have a one strike and you're out economy. the system that once was in place to cushion those crises has been frayed. the most endangered species in america is the middle-class family. i think we have to be alarmed by that and ask whether that is good policy. >> joining us now are emmy award-winning film makers joe and harry gants.
thank you for coming on and making this. we talk a lot about positive and disparity in this country, but broadly hugely underdiscussed as a subject of national concern. what brought you to this project? >> we were seeing a few years ago, more family struggling, more people out of work than in the last 80 years, yet all the discussion was on cutting budgets and cutting services. we thought we needed to show this subject from a human standpoint. so we decided to follow families that were going through this in a personal level. >> a lot of them call a hotline designated to help folks. >> it's 211 in most states. in new york city it's 311, but the number you call if you need some type of social services. with this whole new class of formerly middle-class families now poor, the hotline just like all social agencies are taxed to the max.
>> bob, again, this is now the recurring theme of this show today, but this is what happened to the american middle class. we look at the income gains, 93% of the income games went to the top 1%. income stagnation, the story of the middle classes one, as the gantzes tells us, is one of an endangered species. >> it seems while the policymakers are doing their dance in washington and not coming to a resolution, they are not focused on some of these enormous problems. poverty is one of those problems, and wealth and income and equality is another. we need to be focused on those problems with the kind of intensity going on in washington. >> one of the things that i think is important here, too, is not just statistics which we reel off with some facility in the news media. these are stories, when you hear that kid in the trailer we just
played, talking about hearing his parents unable to afford to put dinner on the table and not eating themselves and the fact he's going to sleep crying thinking about that, that is -- it is -- heartbreaking isn't even the word for it. i think it's also important for us to hear those stories as a nation. >> the families we followed, they were all comfortable three, four years ago. many of them were middle class, some of them were, you know, below middle class, but all able to pay their bills. now the le of stress that they deal with on a day le base, it's 24 hours a day, how do we juggle this big? how do we get food on the table? how do we keep from losing the roof over other kids' heads? they're all hard-working people working since they were teenagers. >> which is important in terms of shattering the ply on who is depending on these quote/unquote entitlement programs. >> it occurs to me, this is echoing bob's points is
washington dangles the keys. look over here, not over there. that kid gets to school, facing the conditions he faces, and he has a real disadvantage in terms of learning, but we attack the teach es' union and we cut the school budgets. and it's all budget cuts and deficits, debt and not nearly the kind of focus. in fact, i wonder if you found this, some of the safety -- have actually helped. we don't do enough to document that, the expansion of refundable tax credits, food stamps tepid up, not enough, but did you encounter at least people interacting? >> yeah, what was their relationship between sort of government programs and their existence? >> one of the issues at 211 is that there are so many more families seeking social services, and they don't know how to do that? it's limb like deer in the headlights. they wait for the knock at the door and then call up and say, what do we do? they need somebody to help them
navigate the system. yes, oregon has good social services, good health care for kids, but still it's not enough. >> that's where you focus on, most of these families are in the state of oregon. >> right. >> i guess the question is, this is an identity crisis of sorts, not just fascially, but bob, people think of themselves as hard-working middle-class families, and the idea that they would be living out of their cars one day is an anathema, that they could fall so far so quickly, they're calling emergency lines. >> i can't tell you how many formerly middle class individuals who i interviewed that said, hey, i used to convenient tier at the food bang and now i have to go there for food for myself. a fellow working in ohio, with a solid middle-class income, he was selling -- he got fired, lost his job. he was going to the local blood bank and selling blood twice a week for $50 a pop just to put
food on the table. >> these are the stories you hear about people scavenging for food, it really is an incredibly moving documentary. congratulation on making it. thank you for making it. everyone should watch it. it premieres on monday, i believe, on hbo, again "american winter" joe and harry gantz, thank you so much. coming up she's no longer governor, no longer a pundit, no longer a reality tv star, but is writing a book on christmas. sarah palin's fun and festive takedown of political correctness. that's just ahead. vo: bold has a huge imagination a playground of innovation, color, and design. showing up where we least expect it and taking inspiration from our wildest dreams. because bold doesn't see the world in fixtures and faucets,
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we'll bring you any new developments. we're staying on the religion beat. only sarah palin could formalize the use of all caps to signify cheerful indignation. "a happy holiday, it is a merry christmas." we'll discuss that, next. asional constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues... with three strains of good bacteria. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'.
how would you stay relevant if you're a former fox news contributor/mama grizzly who hasn't been in office for almost four years? the answer is obvious, release a war on christmas book. yesterday sarah palin announced her third book to be released in november "a happy holiday is a merry christmas." let's talk about this sort of -- indignant, all caps there, i will also read to you, palin's
statement on why she's releasing the book, which is some choice -- amid st. the fragility of this politically correct era, it is imperative that we stand up for our beliefs before the element of faith in a glorious and traditional holiday like christmas is manual inized and ignored. of time i i read one of her quotes, i'm not sure with the subject and vertebra is, and whether there could be a comma, but is this the rebranding that sarah palin needsing to back on top? >> no. my favorite part is the glorious. the only place you see glorious is in like some translation of english, gull glorious republic. what does that title even mean? >> i think she's already, jared, already on defense against all haters, which i guess is her permanent state for -- >> she's comfortable playing
defense. i read some materials about this, and i'm sure -- >> very prepared. >> i come prepared, yeah. >> next i want to talk more about the bird on top of the chimney. the papal sea gull has its own hashtag. >> there was a part she was complains about how commercialized christmas is. i can sign on to that part. >> listen, i'll say this, and i'm going to pivot to a more serious, substantive point as i am wont to do. we don't think about looking out for one another, the community, the sense of the flock, if this engenders a sense of concern about our fellow man, then keep writing the books, sarah palin. i question whether it actually will, but the question of christian goodness in source it's expressed.
>> that would be wonderful, but when she's complaining in her own statement about political correctness, you get the impression that something else is at work here. when i first heard about it, i thought that sarah palin was writing sort of a nice sweet holiday book. i thought, hey, that's really smart. it will be a big seller, burnish her image, gull no such luck, i man. >> rana "the washington post" writes, you don't announce them in march. >> also, aren't children's books sort of what you do when you're trying to have a rebound? it's usually not successful. >> also, angry children's books. >> where does that fit in? >> yeah, the indignant sort of malicious children's book, but anyway, she's an al chemist. we have to leave it there. we are still on papal watch.
there he is. >> there's the bird. >> that bird is still on that chimney. jared bernstein, just for you. different bird, i'm told. >> no, i'm not sure. very similar to the other one. >> we have a controversy. >> so it goes. these are the mysteries of vatican city, my friend. we have to leave it there. thank you to you all. that is all for now. joy reed will be in for me tomorrow. she's be joined by michael dyson. and the daily beast's megan mccartel. you can find us on facebook, "andrea mitchell reports" is up next. [ man ] we love to eat. we just didn't know that our plants did, too. then we started using miracle-gro liquafeed every two weeks. now our plants get the food they need while we water. dinner's ready. come and get it. no one goes hungry in this house. so they're bigger, healthier, and more beautiful. guaranteed. with miracle-gro anyone can have a green thumb.
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